Talk:Predator (film)

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Guns and (Shea) Butter: An Oral History of 'Predator'

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Brazil

It took a bit of effort but I found the location for the map that General Phillips shows Dutch. The map is of the Chapada das Mangabeiras area in Brazil (easily seen in-full on the zoomed-out shot and in-part in the zoomed-in shot as it is in the largest font on the map) centered on about 10°13′S 44°38′W / 10.217°S 44.633°W / -10.217; -44.633. The missing helicopter seems to have gone down in the Parnaguá municipality. The key information I used to crack it was the municipality of Xique-Xique which can be seen to be located on the Rio São Francisco in the lower right portion of the zoomed map shown in the film.

Also interesting are the FIR/UIR lines on the map. One is the RECIFE FIR/UIR, which is Brazilan, and the adjacent one says BELEM FIR/UIR. Jason Quinn (talk) 11:55, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good find. But the map must be a goof, or the production team just didn't care enough to make one for the movie instead of just reusing an existing one. There's no country border nearby for the group to escape to, and the guerilleros were speaking Spanish (as does Anna) instead of Brazil's Portuguese. For me this is supposed to be situated in Central America.--176.199.18.119 (talk) 00:48, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They just didn't care. In 1987, nobody imagined crystal-clear pausing for home viewership. Nor could they have imagined how easy it would become for viewers to double-check this kind of stuff. Brazil itself has nothing to do with the movie except for the fact that the map they thought that looked best on camera happened to be of Brazilian territory. Jason Quinn (talk) 00:34, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

General Philips

Just for future reference, General Philips is a Major General (two stars on hat and collar). Major Generals are addressed as "General" as in the film ~~and are the highest peace time ranking~~. He's wearing an 82nd Airborne Division patch with Airborne tab on his right shoulder (visible during opening scenes). Presumably, he is supposed to be the general of the 82nd Division.

In the helicopter, Dillon says that he and Dutch got Airborne lighters, so they too were in the Airborne Division also likely the 82nd which would explain why Dutch has respect for Philips who would have likely been one of Dutch and Dillon's superiors at the time. The 82nd Airborne is also based out of Fort Bragg which is consistent with how Dutch knew the "Green Berets out of Fort Bragg".

3rd award Combat Infantryman Badge (on left chest)

Visible at the end of the film, while he's in the helicopter, Philips can be seen wearing a 3rd award (notice the two stars above) Combat Infantryman Badge, which is awarded for action in Vietnam. Below this he's also wearing an Airborne master parachutist badge but it's very difficult to discern unless you pause an high-res copy right at the moment he appears in the helicopter.

Also visible on his left shoulder is this combination of a "Special Forces" tab with a shield patch of horse with a lightning bolt. According to the link the shield patch is a "US Army 1st Special Operations Command (Airborne) (1st SOCOM) patch". But 1st Special Operations command is a new thing according to our article for that it was established only recently, much after the film. So there's some history there that I don't yet know (and our article ignores). They were apparently also active in the Vietnam War (see commons:Category:1st Special Forces Group in the Vietnam War), which would have been Philips' case. Jason Quinn (talk) 09:45, 5 March 2020 (UTC) (Struck erroneous claim Jason Quinn (talk) 01:17, 27 January 2022 (UTC))[reply]

He has something else above his name that looks like this patch but that's from a different division. Jason Quinn (talk) 14:33, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, this might might sense. So that patch appears to come from the 17th Airborne Division (United States). It however was only active until 1949. It's possible that Philips got his start in the Army in the 17th Airborne. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:45, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Useful link to see real MG of the 82nd: List of commanders of 82nd Airborne Division (United States) Jason Quinn (talk) 12:13, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This video contains a still shot that shows a couple of the actual patches. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:29, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE: The description on the link is likely in error. The horse and lightning bolt patch appears to belong to the 1st Special Forces Group (United States) which would have been active for Philips, not to 1st Special Forces Command (Airborne), which is a modern thing that took over. So it appears Philips history is 17 Airborne (until 1949) then 1st Special Forces Group, then 82nd Airborne. This time sequence at least makes sense. Philips would have been in the army about 38 to 40 years by the time of the movie, which is actually realistic for a Major General. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:53, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's noted in the article but to keep this together: name patch says "Philips" but spelled as "Phillips" in end credits. Jason Quinn (talk) 13:46, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Novelization

Val Verde was removed as the setting given in the novelization (@Leigh Burne:) and replaced with Guatemala. Many websites give Val Verde as the novelization's source so I'm wondering if this is correct. Perhaps both are correct. The story takes place in more than one country. During Dutch's initial briefing he's told, "We lost a cabinet minister and his aide from this charming little country". But Dutch asks regarding the location of the downed chopper, "This cabinet minister, does he always travel on the wrong side of the border?" So Dutch's team had to cross a border for their rescue. It's very possible that in the novel, Dutch and his team arrive in Guatemala for the briefing but after the helicopter trip the setting changes to Val Verde for the search for the chopper. Jason Quinn (talk) 12:02, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I own the novelisation and it never once mentions Val Verde. The opening briefing is said to take place in “Conta Mana” (a seemingly fictional state), while reading remainder of the action takes place in Guatemala. Leigh Burne (talk) 19:47, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this information, Leigh Burne. The locations for this movie certainly are a confusing state of affairs. Jason Quinn (talk) 02:33, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Some info for Val Verde (fictional country). - wolf 01:53, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

why???? my warnings are set to keep us here tonight

switch 66.29.210.6 (talk) 03:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone give me an idea where the character names have come from?

Are they all mentioned in the film or are they from later films/games and third party sources? They should only be credited as they are in this film. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 22:07, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

None of the expanded names are given in the film and I don't think it's given in any of the other films either. I think people were using the screenplay and/or the novelization to pull them in. I don't think we should do this. Fans will add this information back over time. Regarding Philips, what happened to the note about the spelling of his name? I think that's worth keeping as it's makes the real spelling of his name ambiguous and it's directly from the film. Also, Dutch is a Major so maybe that's worth keeping too. "Major Dutch" is also mentioned later in the article unexpectedly because it should have been established earlier if that's going to be used. Jason Quinn (talk) 19:31, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can't remember the exact internal link but there is a policy against including ranks as credits. It could be part of the character description that follows but the names should be as credited, hence the only one I kept was General Philips. I will change the later mention of "Major Dutch" because that isn't what is in the reference anyway, and I'll find that Phillips explanation and re-add it. Fans re-adding stuff is just how wikipedia works but there is a guidelinefor crediting and these are as they are in the end film credits. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 20:14, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, re-reading the Phillips note, if he's credited as Phillips, who cares what the name tag says? Seems to be the same as the discussion above about how we should ignore the map showing the exact location as a mistake. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 20:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For reference, the relevant guideline (it's not a not policy) is MOS:FILMCAST. There are two parts relevant to this discussion in that guideline: A) "Editors are encouraged to lay out such content to best serve its readers." and B) "Names should be referred to as credited, or by common name supported by a reliable source." Point A makes it a matter of debate whether to use the ranks. Point B at face value suggests we use the spelling in the credits although I think the purpose of that sentence was to avoid vernacular names for characters and this situation where there's a name-tag in the film itself perhaps is an unexpected special case that falls outside the original intent behind its inclusion. As for me, I like the footnote about the spelling as it makes the article more interesting and fun to read (at least in my opinion). But opinions may vary. In terms of the cast listing, for this particular film, ranks may help. Suppose I'm talking to a ordinary movie lover who has seen the film at some point—not a super fan like myself and presumably you too—and I refer to the character "General Phillips", I think some decent portion of people would remember who that was after a pause and a think because the word "General" help jog the memory. But if I just said "Phillips", I think most people would be stumped without further elaboration and probably left wondering if there was even a character named Phillips. People will remember that there was some high ranking character but since it was a minor character they probably wouldn't recall the name. So under this argument, "General Phillips" better serves the readers. (BTW I don't feel super strongly either way here. I'm just giving my opinion and offering a counterargument. You've done a wonderful job improving the article.) Jason Quinn (talk) 11:11, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]